The River Tiger Podcast from Dynamics Coaching
The River Tiger Podcast from Dynamics Coaching is a space for curious, evidence-informed conversations that sit at the intersection of learning, movement, skill acquisition, ethics, and philosophy — with a particular love for adventure, lifestyle, and equestrian sports.
Hosted by Marianne Davies, the show explores what it means to become skilful in environments that are complex, fluid, and never fully controllable — where risk can be managed, but not eliminated.
Each episode brings research and real-world practice into dialogue through spontaneous, thoughtful discussions with practitioners and researchers. Expect deep dives into ecological and systems perspectives, coaching practice, decision-making under pressure, and the socio-cultural realities that shape how we train, compete, and care — for ourselves, for others, and (in equestrian contexts) for the horse as a partner in the learning environment.
The River Tiger Podcast from Dynamics Coaching
Horse Welfare 12: Systems Thinking, Wicked Problems, and Rethinking Equestrian Practice.
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In this episode of the River Tiger Podcast, I am joined by returning guest Dr. Karen Luke to explore her new paper and framework referred to as “Horse Welfare 12”, based on Donella Meadows’ 12 leverage points for intervening in complex systems.
Drawing on systems thinking and decades of hands-on experience with horses, Karen unpacks why the equestrian world is a “wicked problem” – full of genuinely conflicting stakeholder needs (riders, organisers, horses, wider horse industries) – and why quick fixes like tightening a noseband rarely address what’s really going on underneath.
Instead, she invites us to stop, reflect, and be curious: about our practices, our language, and the deep paradigms we’ve inherited about what horses are “for”.
In this episode, we discuss:
- What makes the horse industry a “wicked problem”
- Conflicting values and goals between riders, governing bodies, spectators, and horses
- Nosebands in dressage as an example of solutions that help one stakeholder but may harm another
The Horse Welfare 12 / Meadows 12 framework
- Donella Meadows’ 12 leverage points and why they matter for equestrian sport
- Grouping the 12 into four “bands”: parameters, feedback, design, and intent
- Why the deepest level – paradigm, values, beliefs – quietly drives everything else
From parameters to paradigms: practical examples
- Parameter level: tightening a noseband, adding a slow-feeder – easy to change, limited systemic impact
- Feedback level: using rein-tension devices to give riders real-time information, not just acting on the horse
- Design level: changing rules and scoring (e.g., including rein tension in dressage scores)
- Intent/paradigm level: shifting from seeing the horse as “athletic equipment” to a sentient being and partner
Rider safety, welfare, and the problem with “band-aid” solutions
- How better welfare and positive affective state in horses relates to rider safety
- Why gadgets and stronger controls may mask the problem rather than solve its cause
- The “British novice / British nervous” pattern: when control culture undermines both confidence and connection
Language as a deep leverage point
- How words like naughty, disobedient, resistant, submissive, and even calling a horse it reveal our paradigm
- Using language intentionally to support seeing horses (and other beings) as subjects, not objects
- Parallels with other domains where there is a power differential (e.g., children, women, First Nations people)
Curiosity instead of guilt and defensiveness
- Moving from “I feel terrible about what I used to do” to “What might I be missing now?”
- Why guilt can shut down learning, and how curiosity creates space for change
- Simple, everyday questions riders and coaches can ask:
- What is this behaviour telling me?
- What assumptions am I making?
- Do my practices actually line up with my values about horses?
What we can all do next
- Tuning into behaviour as information, not just something to control
- Noticing and gently shifting our language
- Creating spaces for dialogue across paradigms*– chunking up to shared values first, then back down to solutions
- A preview of Karen’s next project* on systems dynamics modelling for horse welfare: putting Horse Welfare 12 into practice in a more formal, quantitative way
About my guest Karen Luke
Karen is an equine scientist working at the intersection of horse welfare, human behaviour change, and systems thinking. Her research asks a question that's increasingly urgent for the horse industry: after more than forty years of welfare science, why has translation into practice been so slow — and what would it take to change that?
Resources
- Karen’s paper / author copy of “Horse Welfare 12”– available via her website (https://changingrein.com.au/).
- Changing Rain (podcast) – Karen’s podcast exploring change, horses, and welfare (check your favourite podcast platform).
This episode is for you if:
- You’re uneasy about some traditional equestrian practices but not sure what to do instead.
- You’re interested in systems thinking, complexity, and Meadows’ leverage points, and want to see them applied to horse welfare.
- You coach, ride, or care for horses and want to align your values, language, and everyday practices more closely with their welfare.